Your Views on The War

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babymarty

Your Views on The War

Post by babymarty »

I wanted to post this so that everyone could post their views and we can have an honest discussion about the war, and our government's role in it.

On another post, (Star's hot holloween mix) I had made a joke that pottypants took offence at, and asked another question. Here is my answer.

No pottypants, the military does not protect MY FREEDOMS as they span the globe and protect the Corporate-Nation-State, otherwise known as The Military-Industrial-Complex. :evil:

My freedoms were not threatned in 1861, when a group of independant, soveran states, decided to leave the union, and form their own national government called, the Confedrate States of America. The result of Lincolin's war? Over 600,000 dead, and a more powerful, stronger, central government in Washington, that was the first step in turning the U.S. into an Empire bent on Corporate control and expansion.

My freedoms were not threatened in 1870, when the U.S. sent in the military to Utah, Arizona, New, Mexico, etc., to wipe out the last living indians in the west, so the U.S. could steal their land, and expand the "Wild West".

My freedoms were not threatened in 1898 when Spain had control of Cuba and the islands of the south pacific, but the Corporate-Nation-State, i.e., "Corporate America", wanted those countries to increase their corporate profits, and expand their overseas operations.

My freedoms were not threated in 1914, when the nations of Eroupe plunged into a bloody, mind-less war, that had NOTHING to do with America! But still, we sent troops, and thousands of American boys died for nothing. WWI changed nothing, but the punishing treaty of Versailles plunged Germany into a deep depression, and helped the rise of Hitler and his Nazis. We ramed the treaty of Versailles down the throat of Germany in 1919, and they responded in 1933, by freely electing Hitler and his band of Nazi thugs to seek revenge for such a punishing treaty that cripled their economy.

My freedoms were not threatend in 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Japanese had NO INTENTION of invading the U.S. and "taking away our freedoms". Japan bombed Pearl Harbor (which was not part of the U.S., but was a "protectrate") because they wanted a free hand in China and South East Asia. By cripling our fleet, they hoped to take over China, without U.S. interfearence. I have NO PROBLEM with bombing their cities in an act of revenge, Japan got pounded, and they deserved it, but let's not kid ourselves, they were not trying to, "take away our freedom". Japan, or Germany in 1941, did not threaten my liberty.

My freedoms were not threatened by Korea in 1951, or Vietnam in 1965, or Chile in 1973, or Panama in 1989, or Iraq in 1991, or Somalia in 1993, or Kosovo in 1998, or Iraq (again) in 2003.

Ahhh yes, Iraq. Remember the propaganda? Sadam=Hitler, Iraq=Nazi Germany, "the smoking gun, is a mushroom cloud", etc., etc., etc.

At NO POINT in history, has a backward, Third-World, impoverished, failed-state like Iraq, ever threatened my freedoms! :evil:

From 1861 to now, EVERY THREAT to my LIBERTY has come from my "own" government, not from some hungry, backward country 8,000 miles away from my home. :evil:

In fact, the last time a country invaded the U.S. and tried to take our freedom, was in 1812, when the British, still smarting from their defeat in 1776, launched an invasion of the U.S. and burned down the White House. Every American patriot with a gun was out there blowing their heads off, and giving them a beating so bad they quickly withdrew, and never, ever, tried to "take away our freedoms" again.

No pottypants, from 1861 on down to today, the federal goverment has been the one who has sought a monoply of leathal, military force, against the peaceful citizens of this great country. We have been highjacked by a group of neo-con thugs who want to spread a Corporate-Military-Empire across the globe so we can all eat Big Macs, drink high-fruitcose corn syrup, watch 600 TV chanels, grow fat, stupid, and lazy, all under the watchful eye of a corporate security camera. :evil:
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PottyPants
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Post by PottyPants »

Thank You for starting a new thread Marty. You have some interesting views. You also brought up some points that maybe I should look into. I do follow as far as the corporate world trying manipulate the political system.
Mommy, I made a big :oops: present :oops: for you.
babymarty

Post by babymarty »

You are very welcome pottypants. :D

I love disscussing ideas and debating social policy, history, etc. It's one of the things I miss most about my days at the university. 8)

Knowldge is power, and the more we know about the world around us, and our own history, the more powerful we become.

Read, ask questions, debate, stay away from TV, drugs, and anything that numbs the mind.

Knowing and understanding the past, is the key to our future. :wink:
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pinkluvs
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I disagree

Post by pinkluvs »

I disagree about 1941. Sure, you may be right about Japan, but what about Nazi Germany? The freedom of the planet was a stake thanks to Nazi Germany's intent on a "Master Race" and world domination. They systematically killed over 6 million people because they were Jewish, disabled, ethnically different, homosexual, etc, etc.
If that wasn't worth fighting against, then what is?
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pinkluvs
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And further

Post by pinkluvs »

As someone who likes to wear diapers, you would no doubt feel VERY threatened by a dominant nazi state. If you were found out, I think you know what fate would await you.
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Glen
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Post by Glen »

I have to agree with pink luvs on that one marty.. I think the alliance between Germany and Japan was set for one thing.. global domination. Even Australia was attacked and at one stage, the northern parts invaded by Japan (and a few German soldiers) during world war 2.

that said I do agree it is good to question those who are making decisions in these things. Nobody should just accept the decisions people in power make without questioning them and trying to understand. When we stop questioning and just accept and believe they are doing it for the good of us and placing the responsibilty in their hands all the time, greed and corruption will start to infest like a diesease (i feel this has happened already a great deal).

I also agree it is good to revisit history and learn from our mistakes and try to improve ourselves through that knowledge (although we have to be careful because history itself can be misleading due to it often being written by the victor).

Now to put myself on the line and give my thoughts on the Iraq war.. I think it was a mistake to invade Iraq and i do believe there was more reasons than neighbourly concern governing the allied countries attack. I think by doing so we have hurt the iraqi people by taking away from them the power to resolve thier own problems and immersing them into what has effectively became a civil war.

I do agree that much of Saddam's regime was evil and corrupt and did indeed violated many human rights, but I think that through our involvement we have not actually made iraq a safer place. I felt before this war started that by stepping in we would only have an adverse effect and so far i feel justified in my thoughts. That said I want to stress I hold no grudge against the soldiers over there who were involved in the intial conflict.. and more so I actually admire the ones who are currently there trying to restore order and maintain peace.

It is at this point I dont actually have a single line of thought on how to proceed. Do we withdraw? Are we helping by staying? If we withdraw will it make matters worse in the long term or short term? These are answers i have pondered a few times and have never came up with an acceptable answer with the information i have, and not being a gambling man I think I would be hard pressed to come up with a strong answer.

I hope I have not offended anyone with my thoughts.. but Like marty I too do enjoy a good debate and enjoy learning through discussions like these. I often find that I sometimes have to reassess my opinions and thoughts and change my attitudes in regards to a topic.
Illusions are usually better than reality but only when we believe in them...
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EvolvingGRL
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Post by EvolvingGRL »

i think the war should end already! its causing A LOT of problems in the USA and i don't understand why they keep making it more complicated...I think we should have just minded our own business in Iraq thing i don't even think Muslims had anything to do with the airplane thing its still a mystery to me
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